could it be? asperger's?

[kenny]

well this is going to be long. just thot i'd warn ya ha.

a couple of month's ago i was watching rainman and mercury rising. i'm thinking, hey i'm a bit like these people, but i don't act quite that odd, but i've always been that analytical. so i'm wondering if maybe there are different degrees of autism or other disorders that are similar.

so anyhow, i've been searching and searching about autism. found this aq test on wired. scored 33. read some about asperger's sounds a lot like my life.

i'm a bit extreme on the relationally impairment. pretty much seems like some cruel joke, where i have no idea what the rules are. i regularly get extremely irate with the people i care about the most and won't say a word to them for days. now mind you this is a marked improvement over just leaving them completely.

i've rarely had friends my own age. now in college i did have some friends. had a misunderstanding with them, and i did not take that well at all. completely avoided everyone and i stopped attending classes completely. i had never missed a day of school in my life. I got upset in elementary school when school was closed for the summer, and i would beg the teachers for something to learn over the summer.

well anyhow when i came home from that first semester i didn't tell anyone about it at all. i was so confused. i didn't know how to talk to anyone about what had happened. i didn't understand why no one could notice anything was wrong. anyhow about 3 months later i had a breakdown. Diagnosed with schitzophrenia, released from the mental hospital a week later. strange i can never belive that i was only there a week, it seemed like months. i would pace the halls, read whatever i could get my hands on, going nuts for something to analyze that made some sense, since my life didn't make any sense at all.

ok, well, i'm thinking that's probably enough of me. least for now. whatchya guys think?

well, what do ya know that wasn't that long anyhow. well, i hardly said anything i was going to say anyhow, just sorta previewed what i was thinking about saying.

[betwixt]

Hi, Kenny, it does sound like you could be Aspergers. Here are some more self-tests:

www.autismresearchcenter.com/tests/default.asp
www.rdos.net/eng/Aspie-quiz.php

[opivy22]

Not to be critical, but

... i was watching rainman and mercury rising. i'm thinking, hey i'm a bit like these people, but i don't act quite that odd .... diagnosed with schitzophrenia...

there is the reason for your odd behaviors. Schizophrenia covers such a broad range of things that it is sometimes misdiagnosed, but generally a diagnosis of Schizophrenia isn't made unless the person is hallucinating, in a catatonic state, grossly delusional, or has speech issues that can't be accounted for by autism. While a lot of symptoms of Asperger's Syndrome and Catatonic Schizophrenia are the same, the difference is Asperger's symptoms are apparent in childhood (usually by age 3-4) while Schizophrenia usually doesn't develop until 18-24 in males.

[speedwell]

Hi Kenny

I agree with betwixt. Not quite sure what opivy is trying to say - it's a bit ambiguous. You state that you have had difficulties since childhood. Sometimes key changes in circumstances or educational progression such as going into exam year or college can cause a lot of distress in some people even to the point of breakdown. Especially if you have additional learning disabilities that might have been missed. I myself have been recently diagnosed hyperlexic - enhanced reading ability thought to be related to autism. You mention that you were into books/ learning to an obsessional degree from a very early age sound like it could be it. The American Hyperlexia Association provides good information about this.

I think getting properly checked out for any learning disabilities may be a good idea as once you have a diagnosis you can understand why you respond the way you do in certain learning situations which is helpful. I had some bad problems in my job - having to read along a line and remember sequences was causing co-ordination problems and mood swings among other things which was why I got diagnosed and the information was really helpful to me. They may also suggest that you check that you have the appropriate glasses - check out prisms. Also it might help if you ever wanted a formal assessment with a psychiatrist although my advice here is make sure you get one who is an expert in Autism/AS. I asked for an appointment to see my local one - what a disaster! (too long to go into here) Also getting a diagnosis means that there is less excuse for people to label you as crazy. In answer to your question, yes there are degrees of Autism/AS similarly to a lot of other conditions. Eg. someone could have mild dyslexia with some spelling problems or severe dyslexia and be virtually unable to read and write.

Hope this helps and all the best.

[opivy22]

Hi Kenny

Not quite sure what opivy is trying to say - it's a bit ambiguous.

All I'm trying to say is that he stated that he was previously admitted to being diagnosed as Schizophrenic, and there are many overlaps between Autism and Schizophrenia. Nothing in his post really indicated a developmental disorder.

Maybe he was shy as a child and was upset that school was closed for the summer, but that isn't the same as finger flapping and echophrasia (however, if these were only seen as an adult both of these would be seen as a sign of Schizophrenia).

In short, I'm trying to say Asperger's is a complicated subject that requires more information than a pretty useless AQ score (I've taken this myself and found the questions to be very vague), shyness, and being upset because school closed for the summer. If the OP says he never had any hallucinations (as hallucinations are required to diagnose Schizophrenia when a form of Autism is present) and researched Asperger's a little more then maybe a clearer picture could be provided.

[speedwell]

Hi Kenny

If you have some spare time I think it would be worth posting up a bit more about yourself especially about yourself as a child. Are there any specifics you can think about from the test that you said you did? Re. your Rainman observation - Learning Disabilities/Differences are often portrayed in media and by agencies/voluntary organisations as showing the more severe examples so that people on the milder end of the scale can think, "Oh, that can't be me, then," and sometimes fall through the cracks. Sometimes A/S can be more subtle in its milder forms.

Helplines usually acknowledge this and are pretty good at explaining this. Is there a general info line you can ring? I assume you are in the US? Also, is there an A/S / Autism group in your area? Sometimes they can provide good info and feedback. Trying to work out the "rules" for other people is certainly a feature of A/S.

It might be worth getting some books out on it. I'd recommend Tony Attwood for starters and there are quite a few good personal accounts.

It's also probably a good idea to get a comprehensive list of differences that apply to children with A/S which you can find in books on subject and A/S sites. Then write down your own list of things that applied to you, even if they are things you have grown out of. Eg. Did you bang your head as a baby? Did you collect strange objects? Did you ever line up your toys? Did/Do you have any allergies/ sensitivities to sounds/colours/textures etc? Did/do you have any rituals/routines? Sometimes these can be quite subtle, so it's worth including everything at first to help with the complete picture.

If you feel you can ask your parents about this, they can sometimes provide information about what you were like as a child. If you're not sure about broaching A/S probably best just to ask about what you were like when you were little. I'd be fascinated to know what you come up with.

Cheers

Speedwell

[kenny]

great, now that it's towards the end of the week when i have zero free time, i'm getting all sorts of responses. hey any tests in particular i should be paying particular attention to on that autism research centre site? well i'll get back when i have time. well anyhow i scored 116 on that aspie quiz

[kenny]

ok, just how do you get to the test on the autism research centre's site???

ya, i'm not quite sure why they diagnosed with with schitzophrenia either. actually just a couple weeks out of the institution my counselor changed it to manic depressive.

childhood stuff. ok, i'll try the best i can remember. oh, learned to read before starting school. well actually i demanded that i be taught how to read because i wanted to and that was just that. i skipped and twirled my hair till i was told to stop about 3rd grade. had a very difficult time learning left from right. never kept things organized, but i did have a fascination with filling various sizes of bottles up with water, and breaking apart rocks. sucked my fingers until the end of 6th grade. had to have speech therapy because i was talking so fast, had problems stuttering ever since.

well i've never had any problems learning anything. just dealing with interpersonal conflicts. i've always been rather going, easy to make friends. but then we moved around a lot so wasn't really around long enough for much conflict. strange i wasn't bothered by being teased and what not by my friends.

i have no clue if there's an a/s group in my area at all. i asked a couple at church if they'd even heard of asperger's, come to find out she's an occupational therapist and works for the school district dealing more or less exclusively with kids with asperger's.

[speedwell]

hi kenny

Great to hear back from you. Interesting points about your childhood. Is 6th grade senior or junior? Not quite sure how the system works over there. The finger sucking certainly sounds like an example of self stimulatory behavior in AS. If the hair twirling was repetive movements that would be a good example too. Also filling up the bottles. Left/right confusion, certainly. It sounds as if there may be some hyperlexia there too. Did you pick up reading with very little help once you were shown? Also speeding up in speech/movements and getting uncoordinated with movements are a part of hyperlexia as are getting high/confused after reading and writing. Since I've found this out I keep a weather eye on how much reading I do and make sure I do plenty of physical activities which help.

I was also teased a lot at school and it also didn't bother me at the time, which makes some sense when you think about it - awareness of others etc. Good that your counselor has reconsidered. I think its worth pursuing the A/S too. The lady at the church sounds as if she could give you some good information. Also I think that Autistic "Shutdown" can be confused with mental illness by some professionals. The Autistic Society UK do a very good sheet on this.

Anyway that's all I can think of right now and all the best. It'd be interesting to let us know how you get on.

[opivy22]

actually just a couple weeks out of the institution my counselor changed it to manic depressive..

Oh well, that could explain why you were diagnosed with Schizophrenia. There can be a lot of overlap between the two disorders when psychotic symptoms appear, but if you were rediagnosed with Bipolar by someone that spent a lot of 1 on 1 time with you Asperger's could be much more likely if the symptoms have been present since childhood. Bipolar can mimic the psychotic state of schizophrenia at certain times, but lacks the affect flattening.

As other have said, details about your childhood development would be crucial in your case.